[Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives

[Kit]

Ok, I would like to mention first that the story in which the guns are
mentioned 300 years in the future isn't fully canon. Any story that contains
major issues from a sufficiently far enough time into the future is
considered an 'optional' future. It's the future that particular person
envisions, but it's not set in stone like the rest of the 'current'
archives. Matthias' future =3D/=3D Raven's future =3D/=3D the future someon=
e (I
think Stealth) thought of with steam engine technology, etc. So while there
are guns 300 years in Matthias' future, they are not set in stone. I agree
that with no guns there would be no 'gunpowder' per se, but the idea of
powder that explodes would certainly exist, especially considering the
fondness alchemists have for stuff that goes boom. It's not a very big jump
from there to stuff that goes boom in pretty colors.

While stealth is correct that there were fireworks in Keeping the Lamp Lit,
they were 'fireworks', not fireworks. While there is room for interpretation
on what was written, it says that it was the work of a bunch of mages that
made 'dragons and flaming swords to the delight of all who looked on.' That
said, having real dragons light the sky is an excellent idea in my opinion
if someone can figure out why they'd go along with it. (shouldn't be too
hard to come up with, but there should be a reason none-the-less)

2008/8/23 Chris <chrisokane at verizon.net>

>  Stealth just brought up a very good point. Weren't Fireworks already used
> in Matt's story Keeping the Lamp Lit?
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> Chris
>
> The Lurking Fox
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> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:
> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org] *On Behalf Of *Fizzie
> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 1:52 PM
> *To:* mkguild at lists.integral.org
> *Subject:* [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives
>
>
>
> I would have to agree that it would be an interesting "dogfight" and well
> worth the position.  and there are many stories where things go boom so i
> think that there are plenty of different types of Fire"Works"  in the end
> either way it will be spectacular.  You could have it where the large
> dragons try to "tag"  Gornul and the dragonette who are trailing the targ=
ets
> while the dragonette's try and "tag" there larger cousins.  Another idea ,
> tho not the safest, is to have saroth make a light display with lightning
> and fire and wind. Just tossing out ideas.
>
> Fizzie
>
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Clarification Re: Fireworks and their alternatives
>      (JL Badgley)
>   2. Re: Fireworks and their alternatives (JL Badgley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:22:44 +0800
> From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Clarification Re: Fireworks and their
>        alternatives
> To: sundansyr at yahoo.com
> Cc: Metamor Keep <mkguild at lists.integral.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <7b4179080808220822obdbc9aak67093f08ca73f4c8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Ryx <sundansyr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > There are many ways to replicate the effects of 'fireworks' (and they
> wouldn't be called 'fireworks' because the 'fire' that makes them work wo=
uld
> not be so much a big part of the display).
>
> I always thought the 'works' in the name was more akin to
> 'waterworks'... such that it is a 'work' of fire.  Thus, I see no
> reason they should not be called 'fireworks'.
>
> > There are many analogues that can be used to make a light show in the
> sky.  One of the earliest limits of Metamor was 'no gunpowder' and it's b=
een
> that way since its inception, I would prefer not to set that aside.  The
> advention of gunpowder would lead to the introduction of those things that
> gunpowder allows (and this would happen in months, as another writer saw
> gunpowder but no guns... and sought to introduce them).
>
> First off, I agree that you can't have gunpowder--you don't have guns,
> so what would such a powder be for?  Second, I believe that there is a
> date for a musket set at 300 years in the future.   Unsure whether
> this is a matchlock or flintlock, but we have a date for guns that
> could theoretically be extrapolated backwards to there being some sort
> of combustible alchemical material that could be used to reproduce
> 'fireworks'.  You don't have to explicitly state what it is, and if
> needed we could canonize the progression of firearms from now until
> the muskets and thus have a timeline whereby different guns could be
> introduced, assuming it is a problem.
>
> That said, we are in a magical universe, with a master alchemist (or
> two or three) in the Keep.  Shouldn't it be fairly easy to make things
> that go boom (in some stories it seems to happen quite often, as a
> rather unintended side-effect)?  And why worry so much about *what*
> makes it go boom?  You don't have to write about the dragon sand, or
> the mages who think this is or isn't beneath them--just craft a nice
> scene about the finished product.  Let other people worry themselves
> to death about what made it go boom in a world where there is no
> gunpowder.
>
> I *do* like the idea of some kind of aerial 'fire-tag'.  I thought
> that sounded like a neat dragon competition.
>
> -Tatsushu
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:30:23 +0800
> From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives
> To: "Ben Kaufman" <kaufmabr at gmail.com>
> Cc: mkguild at lists.integral.org
> Message-ID:
>        <7b4179080808220830l7e851522y44ebcd6b0ce1e9c6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Ben Kaufman <kaufmabr at gmail.com> wrote:
> > As a side note mabey to go along with the idea of the iluminators guild,
> > they wouldnt be as powerful as whales but i thought of a different idea
> with
> > them.  HAve them Employed by the emporer of Os-Var-Khai.  Remember that
> the
> > chiniese discovered gunpowder  long before europeans. But they <as far =
as
> my
> > knowledge, used it in a gun form other then something like a cannon, and
> > even those were pretty rare. Have them be the personal entertainers for
> the
> > emporer while also giving them the ideal that a job done without magic
> more
> > spectacular. Just another idea that i thought of, it would get rid of
> there
> > "power" that i spoke of earlier and since they are employed by the
> emporer
> > her could send a couple to metamor as gifts , like he did Mong Ho, Ye a=
nd
> > Desuka.
>
> Chinese had rockets, and the Mongols had a type of pot that would
> explode (basically a handgrenade, though it could also be flung from
> various seige weapons).  The Europeans eventually figured they could
> put it in a metal tube and push either a bolt or metal ball out the
> end.  Still, most of this revolved around the fact that it burned--it
> didn't 'explode' like most people think.  Also, you need a small hole
> or you would end up having it blast backwards in your face, and if
> your metal wasn't very well worked or the ball got stuck, or, or,
> or... lots of things could go wrong.  'Hoisted by his own petard'
> anyone?
>
> I don't see there being a contradiction in having rockets but no guns,
> personally.
>
> -Tatsushu
>
>
>
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