<html> <head> <style></style></head> <body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Christof supplied some answers, yes, enough that I'm warily willing to wait and see. But you're right, Matt... there's more to be discussed, both from a theological sense and from a standpoint of respecting other peoples' creations.<div><br><div>> First off, the idea that the Tened would be worshiping Eli really <br>> shouldn't be that outlandish. After all, Abraham worshipped God <br>> before the Jewish people came to be. In fact, the idea of a Jewish <br>> people didn't come to be until well after the Kingdom of Israel <br>> split, and even then properly speaking not until the Babylonian <br>> exile. Before that they were the Hebrew peoples. But in some ways <br>> that is splitting hairs. The primary point is that God has revealed <br>> Himself in many ways throughout our own history; there is no reason <br>> to suppose Eli would not do the same in our fictional setting.<br><br>Oh, certainly. That's where the Yehudim came from in the already-established canon. They're the Jews.</div><div><br>> Also, from a literary point of view, if the people of C.S. Lewis's <br>> Peralandra haven't even Fallen yet, or the people of Narnia have <br>> Aslan, then we should find it equally believable that the Tened <br>> worshipped Eli, guided by their guardian Troud, or that prior to the <br>> arrival of the aedra/daedra the other races also knew Eli to one <br>> degree or another. After all, if Eli is the creator even of the <br>> aedra and daedra, then it stands to reason that there would be some <br>> places in the world that would know of Him. To have Eli come onto <br>> the scene only after the Lightbringers were around strikes me as implausible.<br><br>I had to read this three times before I didn't see it implying that the aedra/daedra were the cause for the Fall of Man. And Elf. And Dragon. And Binoq. Et al. If it did, I would be completely livid at the disrespect to Raven, and the rewriting of canon. Satan's presence (as the 'Adversary') has already been established. I'll get back to this when I offer my suggestion for the aedra/daedra side of the story.</div><div><br>> As to Eli not acting to preserve the Tened, I think we find numerous <br>> examples in Christian history of people who suffered greatly for the <br>> faith only to end up dying cruel and miserable deaths. The parade of <br>> martyrs that comes down to us from the Patristic Age, as well as many <br>> of the more recent examples (St. Maximillian Kolbe comes to <br>> mind). By enduring martyrdom, they won even greater merit for <br>> themselves in Heaven, and their blood sowed the seeds of other <br>> Christians.</div><div><br></div><div>Your examples fail to grasp the scale of what I was saying. For your examples to properly contain the scope of the <i>complete genocide </i>of which the aedra and daedra are being accused, they would have to be examples of the <i>complete and total obliteration of all Christians and/or Israelites</i>. I sincerely doubt you'll find such an example.</div><div><br></div><div>> And the prayers of the Tened were heard, but the answer <br>> had to wait for the right time and that time has come with the <br>> transformation of Jacob's family into true Tened, as well as Troud's <br>> confession to Felsah that cleansed him of his own stains.<br><br>"Your prayers for deliverance from your oppressors and the murderers of your children are denied. But don't worry- Thousands of years from now, some humans will be magically changed into more of you and your people will start anew. Sure, they won't <i>exactly</i> be blood relatives, but they'll look like you and act... well... they'll <i>probably</i> act at least somewhat like you... After all, your people will be very nearly erased from history well before then, so it's not like your 'descendants' will have much of a reference to go by."</div><div><br>> So if there were Tened who decided to buckle under the disease and <br>> death, I can see Tallakath killing them all anyway in a fit of pique.<br><br>Which would go directly against what was said in the story, that the disease would be taken away 'if you'd just worship us'.</div><div><br>> That said, what are your ideas on what the aedra/daedra side of the <br>> story would be? We'd love to hear your ideas. :-)<br><br>I'm glad to hear that, because from my point of view you've accused Dokorath's honor of being a farce, Artela's mercy a sick joke, and Velena's truth a lie. I can go on, and it makes me as angry as when Cubist and Bard introduced the NeoLuddites to the Blind Pig setting, completely ignoring what others had already written.</div><div><br></div><div>So... my idea. I think I'm going to have to timeline this.</div><div><br></div><div>Eli creates world. Eli creates humans, dragons, elves, etc. The Fall occurs. Humans, dragons, et al, start into idolatry, sun/star/ancestor/spaghetti monster worship. You know- the established pattern in history.</div><div><br></div><div>The aedra and daedra arrive from... elsewhere. (I know for certain that Raven could give more specifics than me about this.) They see a world of people (and dragons and elves and...) worshiping things that can't help them, and decide to do something about it. Some to help uplift, some just to take what they want from whomever they can. In the process of thoroughly trouncing lifeless idols, they happen across tales of some being name 'Eli' (or whatever the Tened are calling him at the time). Given that they have no knowledge of Him, prior experience suggests that this 'Eli' is just another made-up being...</div></div><div><br></div><div>Please note: This is just my idea on the matter, and not anything official.</div> </div></body> </html>