<p dir="ltr">Mmm and there are older stories up that also have canonocity problems... maybe they should be added to the site in the Canon section. But with a warning that they're quite old.</p>
<p dir="ltr">BTW anyone seen Dimensional? Eh he's probably traveling for thanksgiving. BTW I hope yours is delicious furson reading this</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Nov 27, 2014 12:54 PM, "christian okane" <<a href="mailto:chrisokane@optimum.net">chrisokane@optimum.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Ok. Some comments from me.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> That old story from WIC is just that - old. Done before many elements were fixed and it might have some canon issues.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> The taur ability is one where some people can do it and some cannot. It's really up to the author.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Chris<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:mkguild-bounces@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">mkguild-bounces@lists.integral.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:mkguild-bounces@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">mkguild-bounces@lists.integral.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryx<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> Alex Green; Azariah Wolf<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:mkguild@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">mkguild@lists.integral.org</a>; Jessica Nichols-Vernon<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mkguild] Distant Voices<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">Much as I'd like to snip out the full length story my mail proggy won't let me - so forgiveness for the bulk of this post.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">Concerning the ability to shift between genders for those cursed with that aspect -<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">It CAN be done. Not easily, not not for protracted periods, but it can be done. As well, those who have put effort into learning this can alter their physical appearance rather dramatically. Normal is knockout gorgeous, but it can be toned down to 'normal', and with some considerable effort even 'ugly'. It could be hypothesized that some - particularly those who have become spies - that they can even change certain aspects of their appearance such as eye color, hair color and length, or even overall skin tone (within the range of their race). Body mass can be more problematic, but I could see that more would practice this form of alteration so they're not overweight. Assumed muscle is not 'strength' muscle, however. That still takes work and exercise.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">As with those who have learned the 'taur shifting ability in previous - canon - stories, it should be expected that those with the gender and age versions can assume a degree of control over their curse given a lot of time and considerable practice, and by exerting a large measure of self will. Becoming 'taur is not easy, and few truly master it, while pretty much all animorphs can assume various forms of their new species, though size can be an issue they have to work on (becoming a true, normal 1lb rat takes some effort, but being one closer to the general mass of the character does not. Larger species, such as horses, have a much easier time of these alterations).<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">I would like to state - though some may disagree - that transgenders cannot reproduce beyond the limits of their new gender. If they have become female, no amount of masculine shifting will allow them to father children. Likewise for those who have been made male.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">Similarly, those with the pedomorph curse can make themselves look adult, again with considerable effort and not for protracted periods of time. Altering themselves within the range of the curse - toddler to young adolescence - is much easier since that is already the established normal range.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black">We have already established these rare abilities throughout the setting and should not put a boot down on further exploration of such.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:54 PM, Alex Green <<a href="mailto:alexsurikat@gmail.com" target="_blank">alexsurikat@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010ff 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Just a few points I'd like to add;<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">You should be able to access the link if you're a member of the <b>TSA-Talk mailing list</b>. It's the <b>TSA-Talk mailing list</b> archive. The sign-in page requires the email address and password that you used to sign-up for the <b>TSA-Talk mailing list</b>. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I posted this link because although the story has many non-cannon elements, I thought it would be a good idea to see how Malisa's creator intended her to be. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The biggest issue with the story is it basically outright states that anyone with the TG curse can switch between genders while explaining the reason Malisa can't. It also talks about portals to other universes. There were a few other little details of questionable canonicity as well. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Calling herself Matt isn't just a throwback to her male name; it's an important part of her character. She despises her sex change so much that she tries to do everything she possibly can to remain masculine; she uses what little control over the curse she has to force her breasts as small as possible; she cuts her hair short; she wears men's clothes; she exercises for hours at a time to maintain a more masculine figure; and she has everyone refer to her as Matt or Matthew. She is referred to as Matt 112 times and Matthew 31 times in the story. She's only referred to as Malisa once. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">That particular story was posted November 27th only five days after the original Metamor Keep story was posted. (looks like Metamor Keep just celebrated it's 17th birthday last Saturday. We should really make some sort of effort to point out the anniversary every year. (Metamor Keep was posted to the TSA-Talk list on Saturday, November 22nd 1997.)) A lot of stories from the first two weeks had issues especially because it took a while for Copernicus to lay down the rules for the setting. Even Copernicus's second story (an attempt to fix a continuity error) was later declared non-canon when the original reason for the continuity error was retconned. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I found the rest of Winc's (Mal's, Matt's, Matthew's, Malisa's (wow, that's almost as many names as Hawl has)) stories in the Distant Voices arc and Metamor Keep universe. I can't comment on them as I haven't read them yet. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The Team<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Part 1 <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019217.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019217.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Part 2 <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019282.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019282.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Midtown<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Part 1 <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019474.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019474.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Part 2 <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019475.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019475.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Three days after Midtown was posted, <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019740.html" target="_blank">Winc left the TSA-Talk mailing list</a>, and asked for someone to take over Malisa and her story line. I don't know if anyone ever did, but there's nothing in the official archive about this story line so for all practical purposes the answer is no. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Scratch that, Winc came back a month later, re-posted an edited version of <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1998-January/020564.html" target="_blank">Distant Voices</a>, posted <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1998-April/023181.html" target="_blank">some notes on the storyline</a>, posted <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1998-April/023180.html" target="_blank">three</a> <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1998-April/023182.html" target="_blank">more</a> <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1998-April/023183.html" target="_blank">parts</a>, <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1999-February/032546.html" target="_blank">changed names again, and promised to post more MK</a>, and that's as much as I've found so far. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Also, I found a bit more on Jenn:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Character info: <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019324.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019324.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Story: The Alchemy of Love (Part 1) <a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019323.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-December/019323.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I didn't find a second part to Alchemy of love. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I hope this was helpful, or informative, or at least not too confusing,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">-AlexSurikat<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Azariah Wolf <<a href="mailto:azariahwolf@gmail.com" target="_blank">azariahwolf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I strongly object to you using your own stories as grounds for determining the canonicity of a story. If you had left it at "people can change between genders", which I can neither confirm nor deny because I can't access the story in question, maybe I'd go easier on you, but your second paragraph goes on to basically proclaim your stories as gospel canon by stating that the character has long black hair and large breasts. Alex already stated that yours are the only stories where these details are mentioned outside of Distant Voices, and I'm more inclined to go with what appears to have been an origin story than with what you added seven years later from personal preference.<br><br>Also, having the character called Matt is likely as much a callback to her male name, and thus has no bearing on whether or not this story is canon.<br><br>Considering that the archive dates this story at some time in 1997, I would say that the oddity of letting people change genders is most likely a misunderstanding of what was at that time a new story universe. I move to consider the description of the character in the story as canon, while leaving the story itself outside of canon due to this misunderstanding.<br><br>-LurkingWolf<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On 11/26/2014 4:24 AM, <a href="mailto:kyle.vernon@gmail.com" target="_blank">kyle.vernon@gmail.com</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019174.html" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/private/tsa-talk/1997-November/019174.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Alex brought this story to our attention, I previously didn't know the tale existed and I don't think many of us did. I vote that it's added to the non-canon section. I haven't finished reading it, but in it some people afflicted with the curse can change to and from the two sexes, which is not the case in the series proper.<br><br>Additionally, Malisa's physical appearance is different than what it's been listed in the canon events (Small breasts, short brown hair Vs. Large Breasts, long black hair) and finally she goes by Matt instead of Malisa.<br><br>Incidentally, I do find it interesting that a few elements of Malisa's character that I thought I had made up are in this story. Eh, not quite sure what to make of it.<br><br>All in favor?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">MKGuild mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:MKGuild@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">MKGuild@lists.integral.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre><pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>_______________________________________________<br>MKGuild mailing list<br><a href="mailto:MKGuild@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">MKGuild@lists.integral.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">_______________________________________________<br>MKGuild mailing list<br><a href="mailto:MKGuild@lists.integral.org" target="_blank">MKGuild@lists.integral.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild" target="_blank">http://lists.integral.org/listinfo/mkguild</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>