[Mkguild] Cthulhu in Metamor

[Michael Bard]

Proof is their robes, and the magical artifact known as the "Sword of
Songs".

But, to go against that, in MK-land, lutins are evil because they're lutins.
If you see one walking along the road, you kill it from ambush.

If one has been raised by a farming family, is good and lawful, and comes to
the Metamor gates...  A guard shoots him, everybody's happy.

So, is IDing "evil" by the form they are in, in a world of magic and
transformation and animal people and AR people, any better than using a
magical sword?

Michael Bard

P.S. Oh, she DID ask in the libary for information about the cult, and was
ridiculed.  Check out "A few Days in Heaven" for details.


> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:42 AM, Michael Bard <bard.michael at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > So, it's morally right to kill Lutins because "everybody" knows their
evil,
> > but it is not morally right to kill cultists because they keep their
evil
> > "secret".  Got it.
> >
> > Killing evil is only potentially correct dependent on popular
perception.
>
> What is the 'proof' of evil?  Their robes?  Can you prove that the
> robes themselves make them party to the attempts on Yvarra's life?  If
> she had somehow *seen* those people come after her... but she hasn't.
>
> To bring it into a modern context, could I go out and kill anyone who
> is a Muslim because *some* people who claim to be Muslim (and I'm not
> doubting their beliefs) have said they want to destroy the West?  No,
> it would be foolish.
>
> Lutins *are* a different animal.  Essentially, the Keep is at war with
> the Lutins, as all the Lutins had rallied under Nasoj.  There's a big
> difference there--and they haven't been killed when approaching under
> signs of peace (e.g. a white flag).  Although they are still
> 'monsters' and you are dealing with prejudices against them that
> aren't 'right' but definitely exist.
>
> > Or, if a successful public relations campaign made all rat-morphs be
evil,
> > killing them wouldn't be a crime either...  :)
>
> Essentially you are correct.  Wouldn't make it right, but it would
> make it not a crime.  'Crime' and legality are determined by the
> authorities--the government--not by what is actually morally right but
> by what they believe to be morally right.
>
> > And yes, you could make an argument that Yvarra should have gone "to the
> > cops" but due to her personality (thief remember?) she just doesn't
trust
> > authority, and REFUSES to let anybody do anything for her.  Thus, she is
> > personality-wise incapable of asking for help.  That will change as the
> > story develops, but not yet.
>
> This is all fine and good.  But you still aren't looking at it from
> the right point of view.  Let's put aside Yvarra's reasons for
> becoming a mass-murdering vigilante (btw, there is a reason why DC
> makes sure Batman--another literary vigilante--goes out of his way
> *not* to kill people.  And the cops still want to put him away, most
> of the time):  As presented to the court, she has killed 20 people.
> Frankly, I don't care if it was 2.  She killed them *in cold blood*.
> She was not in a passion, or in a rage.  She was not attempting to
> defend herself.  She had other options available to her:
>
> 1) She could have gone to the rightful authorities.
> 2) She could have run away.
>
> When you have both of those options, it is hard to justify why she is
> killing people when she doesn't catch them in the act.  If the law
> catches her, she will be tried for murder and likely found guilty.
> Punishment should be death (some stories seem to say that Duke Hassan
> would not give out the death penalty, thus my previous statements--I
> agree with Ryx, though, that it should probably be the death penalty)
> *unless* Yvarra can somehow show that all of these people were an
> immediate threat to her and the people of the Keep.  Thinking on it,
> you have to have that second part, because what makes Yvarra's one
> life more valuable than twenty others?  Even then, probably life
> imprisonment, at least, or very careful guard--perhaps confinement to
> the Keep doing something useful the rest of her life (if she can heal
> others, that may be a sufficient reason).
>
> There are several *very* simple ways to get around this, imho.  First,
> have her try to tell *somebody*.  If she doesn't trust the watch, have
> her go to someone else, who could then research and find information
> for her.  Also, stop killing people in their beds.  I found that image
> VERY disturbing and I think she'll have to answer for it.  For
> instance, why couldn't she tie them up and leave them, with their
> incriminating cloaks, out in the open for all to see?  You could also
> have her kill people who are trying to kill her (i.e. in the act
> of...) and then get witnesses to see it or get rid of your restriction
> on magic being able to figure it out.  Or just have a really good
> detective who could figure out what really happened.
>
> I think the main issue Ryx has, and I have to agree, is that
> slaughtering people in their beds is not war, it isn't passion or
> self-defense--it is murder.  That's going to be a hard one to get out
> of.
>
> -Tatsushu