[Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives

[Hallan Mirayas]

For fun, obviously. :)  For competition and a prize.

I -never- meant to suggest bringing actual -gunpowder- into existence, and =
this seems the best way to enforce that.  If dragon dust is scarce or diffi=
cult to produce, then the small amounts I've envisaged being used in this (=
along with magnesium ribbons), shouldn't be a problem.  And besides the eco=
nomic plusses, it's also something that has never been done before.  It's u=
nique.  Sounds like we've got a winner.

Thanks for the help, everybody!

Hallan

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:12:43 -0700
From: lupiswolf at gmail.com
To: mkguild at lists.integral.org
Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives

"That said, having real dragons light the sky is an excellent idea in my op=
inion if someone can figure out why they'd go along with it. (shouldn't be =
too hard to come up with, but there should be a reason none-the-less)"

 =

I'm not entirely sure how dragons work in MK canon, but everywhere else it =
seems that dragons love their gold.  Find a few young ones who don't have a=
 very well-established hoard, promise them some gold and trinkets to get th=
em started, and natural covetousness might take over.

 =



 =

On 8/24/08, Kit <stormkit10 at gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, I would like to mention first that the story in which the guns are ment=
ioned 300 years in the future isn't fully canon. Any story that contains ma=
jor issues from a sufficiently far enough time into the future is considere=
d an 'optional' future. It's the future that particular person envisions, b=
ut it's not set in stone like the rest of the 'current' archives. Matthias'=
 future =3D/=3D Raven's future =3D/=3D the future someone (I think Stealth)=
 thought of with steam engine technology, etc. So while there are guns 300 =
years in Matthias' future, they are not set in stone. I agree that with no =
guns there would be no 'gunpowder' per se, but the idea of powder that expl=
odes would certainly exist, especially considering the fondness alchemists =
have for stuff that goes boom. It's not a very big jump from there to stuff=
 that goes boom in pretty colors.


While stealth is correct that there were fireworks in Keeping the Lamp Lit,=
 they were 'fireworks', not fireworks. While there is room for interpretati=
on on what was written, it says that it was the work of a bunch of mages th=
at made 'dragons and flaming swords to the delight of all who looked on.' T=
hat said, having real dragons light the sky is an excellent idea in my opin=
ion if someone can figure out why they'd go along with it. (shouldn't be to=
o hard to come up with, but there should be a reason none-the-less)



2008/8/23 Chris <chrisokane at verizon.net> =






Stealth just brought up a very good point. Weren't Fireworks already used i=
n Matt's story Keeping the Lamp Lit?

 =

 =

Chris

The Lurking Fox



 =

 =

 =

 =

 =

-----Original Message-----
From: mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:mkguild-bounces at lists.inte=
gral.org] On Behalf Of Fizzie

Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:52 PM
To: mkguild at lists.integral.org

Subject: [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives
 =


I would have to agree that it would be an interesting "dogfight" and well w=
orth the position.  and there are many stories where things go boom so i th=
ink that there are plenty of different types of Fire"Works"  in the end eit=
her way it will be spectacular.  You could have it where the large dragons =
try to "tag"  Gornul and the dragonette who are trailing the targets while =
the dragonette's try and "tag" there larger cousins.  Another idea , tho no=
t the safest, is to have saroth make a light display with lightning and fir=
e and wind. Just tossing out ideas.


Fizzie

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM, <mkguild-request at lists.integral.org> wrot=
e:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Clarification Re: Fireworks and their alternatives

     (JL Badgley)
  2. Re: Fireworks and their alternatives (JL Badgley)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:22:44 +0800
From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Clarification Re: Fireworks and their
       alternatives
To: sundansyr at yahoo.com

Cc: Metamor Keep <mkguild at lists.integral.org>
Message-ID:
       <7b4179080808220822obdbc9aak67093f08ca73f4c8 at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Ryx <sundansyr at yahoo.com> wrote:

> There are many ways to replicate the effects of 'fireworks' (and they wou=
ldn't be called 'fireworks' because the 'fire' that makes them work would n=
ot be so much a big part of the display).


I always thought the 'works' in the name was more akin to
'waterworks'... such that it is a 'work' of fire.  Thus, I see no
reason they should not be called 'fireworks'.

> There are many analogues that can be used to make a light show in the sky=
.  One of the earliest limits of Metamor was 'no gunpowder' and it's been t=
hat way since its inception, I would prefer not to set that aside.  The adv=
ention of gunpowder would lead to the introduction of those things that gun=
powder allows (and this would happen in months, as another writer saw gunpo=
wder but no guns... and sought to introduce them).


First off, I agree that you can't have gunpowder--you don't have guns,
so what would such a powder be for?  Second, I believe that there is a
date for a musket set at 300 years in the future.   Unsure whether

this is a matchlock or flintlock, but we have a date for guns that
could theoretically be extrapolated backwards to there being some sort
of combustible alchemical material that could be used to reproduce
'fireworks'.  You don't have to explicitly state what it is, and if

needed we could canonize the progression of firearms from now until
the muskets and thus have a timeline whereby different guns could be
introduced, assuming it is a problem.

That said, we are in a magical universe, with a master alchemist (or

two or three) in the Keep.  Shouldn't it be fairly easy to make things
that go boom (in some stories it seems to happen quite often, as a
rather unintended side-effect)?  And why worry so much about *what*
makes it go boom?  You don't have to write about the dragon sand, or

the mages who think this is or isn't beneath them--just craft a nice
scene about the finished product.  Let other people worry themselves
to death about what made it go boom in a world where there is no
gunpowder.


I *do* like the idea of some kind of aerial 'fire-tag'.  I thought
that sounded like a neat dragon competition.

-Tatsushu



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:30:23 +0800

From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives

To: "Ben Kaufman" <kaufmabr at gmail.com>
Cc: mkguild at lists.integral.org

Message-ID:
       <7b4179080808220830l7e851522y44ebcd6b0ce1e9c6 at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Ben Kaufman <kaufmabr at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a side note mabey to go along with the idea of the iluminators guild,
> they wouldnt be as powerful as whales but i thought of a different idea w=
ith
> them.  HAve them Employed by the emporer of Os-Var-Khai.  Remember that t=
he

> chiniese discovered gunpowder  long before europeans. But they <as far as=
 my
> knowledge, used it in a gun form other then something like a cannon, and
> even those were pretty rare. Have them be the personal entertainers for t=
he

> emporer while also giving them the ideal that a job done without magic mo=
re
> spectacular. Just another idea that i thought of, it would get rid of the=
re
> "power" that i spoke of earlier and since they are employed by the emporer

> her could send a couple to metamor as gifts , like he did Mong Ho, Ye and
> Desuka.

Chinese had rockets, and the Mongols had a type of pot that would
explode (basically a handgrenade, though it could also be flung from

various seige weapons).  The Europeans eventually figured they could
put it in a metal tube and push either a bolt or metal ball out the
end.  Still, most of this revolved around the fact that it burned--it
didn't 'explode' like most people think.  Also, you need a small hole

or you would end up having it blast backwards in your face, and if
your metal wasn't very well worked or the ball got stuck, or, or,
or... lots of things could go wrong.  'Hoisted by his own petard'
anyone?


I don't see there being a contradiction in having rockets but no guns,
personally.

-Tatsushu



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