[Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives

[Stealth]

On 8/24/08, Kit <stormkit10 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ok, I would like to mention first that the story in which the guns are
> mentioned 300 years in the future isn't fully canon. Any story that conta=
ins
> major issues from a sufficiently far enough time into the future is
> considered an 'optional' future. It's the future that particular person
> envisions, but it's not set in stone like the rest of the 'current'
> archives. Matthias' future =3D/=3D Raven's future =3D/=3D the future some=
one (I
> think Stealth) thought of with steam engine technology, etc. So while the=
re
> are guns 300 years in Matthias' future, they are not set in stone. I agree
> that with no guns there would be no 'gunpowder' per se, but the idea of
> powder that explodes would certainly exist, especially considering the
> fondness alchemists have for stuff that goes boom. It's not a very big ju=
mp
> from there to stuff that goes boom in pretty colors.
>

Yep, the steam engine tech was mine, though it was more to do with air
ships. Aside from that, I thought Matt's future in LTOY was the official
future setting. So I guess any future is only ever intended as a non-canon
setting? Because that sounds great, I can go nuts with my own vision without
it affecting anything!

 While stealth is correct that there were fireworks in Keeping the Lamp Lit,
> they were 'fireworks', not fireworks. While there is room for interpretat=
ion
> on what was written, it says that it was the work of a bunch of mages that
> made 'dragons and flaming swords to the delight of all who looked on.' Th=
at
> said, having real dragons light the sky is an excellent idea in my opinion
> if someone can figure out why they'd go along with it. (shouldn't be too
> hard to come up with, but there should be a reason none-the-less)
>

Ah, I don't recall the details, never mind.

 2008/8/23 Chris <chrisokane at verizon.net>
>
>>  Stealth just brought up a very good point. Weren't Fireworks already
>> used in Matt's story Keeping the Lamp Lit?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> The Lurking Fox
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:
>> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org] *On Behalf Of *Fizzie
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 1:52 PM
>> *To:* mkguild at lists.integral.org
>> *Subject:* [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives
>>
>>
>>
>> I would have to agree that it would be an interesting "dogfight" and well
>> worth the position.  and there are many stories where things go boom so i
>> think that there are plenty of different types of Fire"Works"  in the end
>> either way it will be spectacular.  You could have it where the large
>> dragons try to "tag"  Gornul and the dragonette who are trailing the tar=
gets
>> while the dragonette's try and "tag" there larger cousins.  Another idea=
 ,
>> tho not the safest, is to have saroth make a light display with lightning
>> and fire and wind. Just tossing out ideas.
>>
>> Fizzie
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM, <mkguild-request at lists.integral.org>
>> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Clarification Re: Fireworks and their alternatives
>>      (JL Badgley)
>>   2. Re: Fireworks and their alternatives (JL Badgley)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:22:44 +0800
>> From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Clarification Re: Fireworks and their
>>        alternatives
>> To: sundansyr at yahoo.com
>> Cc: Metamor Keep <mkguild at lists.integral.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <7b4179080808220822obdbc9aak67093f08ca73f4c8 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Ryx <sundansyr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > There are many ways to replicate the effects of 'fireworks' (and they
>> wouldn't be called 'fireworks' because the 'fire' that makes them work w=
ould
>> not be so much a big part of the display).
>>
>> I always thought the 'works' in the name was more akin to
>> 'waterworks'... such that it is a 'work' of fire.  Thus, I see no
>> reason they should not be called 'fireworks'.
>>
>> > There are many analogues that can be used to make a light show in the
>> sky.  One of the earliest limits of Metamor was 'no gunpowder' and it's =
been
>> that way since its inception, I would prefer not to set that aside.  The
>> advention of gunpowder would lead to the introduction of those things th=
at
>> gunpowder allows (and this would happen in months, as another writer saw
>> gunpowder but no guns... and sought to introduce them).
>>
>> First off, I agree that you can't have gunpowder--you don't have guns,
>> so what would such a powder be for?  Second, I believe that there is a
>> date for a musket set at 300 years in the future.   Unsure whether
>> this is a matchlock or flintlock, but we have a date for guns that
>> could theoretically be extrapolated backwards to there being some sort
>> of combustible alchemical material that could be used to reproduce
>> 'fireworks'.  You don't have to explicitly state what it is, and if
>> needed we could canonize the progression of firearms from now until
>> the muskets and thus have a timeline whereby different guns could be
>> introduced, assuming it is a problem.
>>
>> That said, we are in a magical universe, with a master alchemist (or
>> two or three) in the Keep.  Shouldn't it be fairly easy to make things
>> that go boom (in some stories it seems to happen quite often, as a
>> rather unintended side-effect)?  And why worry so much about *what*
>> makes it go boom?  You don't have to write about the dragon sand, or
>> the mages who think this is or isn't beneath them--just craft a nice
>> scene about the finished product.  Let other people worry themselves
>> to death about what made it go boom in a world where there is no
>> gunpowder.
>>
>> I *do* like the idea of some kind of aerial 'fire-tag'.  I thought
>> that sounded like a neat dragon competition.
>>
>> -Tatsushu
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:30:23 +0800
>> From: "JL Badgley" <tatsushu at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Mkguild] Fireworks and their alternatives
>> To: "Ben Kaufman" <kaufmabr at gmail.com>
>> Cc: mkguild at lists.integral.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <7b4179080808220830l7e851522y44ebcd6b0ce1e9c6 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Ben Kaufman <kaufmabr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > As a side note mabey to go along with the idea of the iluminators guil=
d,
>> > they wouldnt be as powerful as whales but i thought of a different idea
>> with
>> > them.  HAve them Employed by the emporer of Os-Var-Khai.  Remember that
>> the
>> > chiniese discovered gunpowder  long before europeans. But they <as far
>> as my
>> > knowledge, used it in a gun form other then something like a cannon, a=
nd
>> > even those were pretty rare. Have them be the personal entertainers for
>> the
>> > emporer while also giving them the ideal that a job done without magic
>> more
>> > spectacular. Just another idea that i thought of, it would get rid of
>> there
>> > "power" that i spoke of earlier and since they are employed by the
>> emporer
>> > her could send a couple to metamor as gifts , like he did Mong Ho, Ye
>> and
>> > Desuka.
>>
>> Chinese had rockets, and the Mongols had a type of pot that would
>> explode (basically a handgrenade, though it could also be flung from
>> various seige weapons).  The Europeans eventually figured they could
>> put it in a metal tube and push either a bolt or metal ball out the
>> end.  Still, most of this revolved around the fact that it burned--it
>> didn't 'explode' like most people think.  Also, you need a small hole
>> or you would end up having it blast backwards in your face, and if
>> your metal wasn't very well worked or the ball got stuck, or, or,
>> or... lots of things could go wrong.  'Hoisted by his own petard'
>> anyone?
>>
>> I don't see there being a contradiction in having rockets but no guns,
>> personally.
>>
>> -Tatsushu
>>
>>
>>
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