[Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo

[Narwhal KillerNarwhal]

Okay, that sounds fine by me, but... what does each look like?


On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:19 PM, christian okane <chrisokane at optimum.net>wrote:

> How does this sound:****
>
> The Duke of Metamor has an emblem - with the rearing red horse****
>
> THOMAS Hassan has a personal emblem****
>
> And Metamor Keep itself has an emblem****
>
> European Heraldry certainly was complex and confusing and had things like
> that all the time. England the country had an emblem (called the flag now),
> There was an emblem for the King (or Queen) of England and the ruler had
> his (or her) own personal emblem.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Chris****
>
> The Lurking Fox****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:
> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryx
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:35 AM
> *To:* mkguild at lists.integral.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo****
>
> ** **
>
> As I mentioned, I was not particularly familiar with House Hassan as it
> was prior to the curse, and am more than willing to accept the horse
> heraldry as always being extant there.
>
> I was merely offering conjecture, based on a quick and admittedly limited
> examination of Heraldry throughout history, as it may be used in the world,
> both for Hassan and Metamor itself (which is only recently held under the
> titular rule of Hassan).  Kyia would have established her own Heraldry for
> the Keep itself as that came into more common usage.  She is, as ever,
> malleable to the customs and wonts of her residents.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* C. Matthias <jagille3 at vt.edu>
> *To:* christian okane <chrisokane at optimum.net>; 'Alex Green' <
> alexsurikat at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* mkguild at lists.integral.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:59 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo****
>
>
>
> > Comments?
>
> I rather like Ryx suggestions as to the nature of the heraldry as it goes
> along more with what I originally thought and have tried to describe in my
> stories.  However, Alex is also right, the heraldry has always featured a
> horse.
>
> I'm sorry I haven't been more talkative on this subject, but I'm getting
> packed to go to a convention and my daughter needs me a lot.
>
> May He bless you and keep you in His grace and love,
>
> Charles Matthias
>
> >
> > From: mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:
> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org] On Behalf Of christian okane
> > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 12:16 AM
> > To: 'Alex Green'
> > Cc: 'C. Matthias'; mkguild at lists.integral.org
> > Subject: Re: [Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo
> >
> > Ok. So it gets more confusing instead of clearer. BUT A long time ago I
> actually chatted with the real Thomas Hassan about what Duke Thomas'
> heraldry was. He gave the following answer A Red Rearing horse on a black
> background. He deliberately chose something like  the Ferrari car emblem
> for the Duke. And I have been hating him for that ever since. But Hassan is
> long gone from MK and I am willing to listen to the people who care about
> MK - which is us.
> >
> >
> > Chris
> > The Lurking Foxc
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org>
> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org [mailto:
> mkguild-bounces at lists.integral.org] On Behalf Of Alex Green
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:51 PM
> > Cc: <mailto:mkguild at lists.integral.org>mkguild at lists.integral.org;
> christian okane; C. Matthias
> > Subject: Re: [Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo
> >
> > Those are some good suggestions. However there is one point that I must
> disagree with you on:
> >
> >
> > The adoption of the horse heraldry is new, chosen after the Curse.
> Previous to that it could've been anything (I know little of the Hassan
> house history; griffon or drake would seem likely).
> >
> >
> > The have been a couple stories that indicate the horse has always been a
> part of the Hassan family heraldry.
> >
> > This sentence from "Lots" shows how Thomas thinks about being changed to
> match his heraldry
> >
> >
> > The tablecloth was laced with golden thread, and an artistic blending of
> the Hassan horse heraldry – he’d always found that terribly ironic after
> the curse changed him – and the fields and flowers of the valley.
> >
> >
> > And in this scene from "Landing in a New Age", Andwyn finds it strange
> that Dupré would end up a ram like his family's symbol till Thomas points
> out the same thing happened to him.  Malisa goes on to say that it's still
> a very rare circumstance.
> >
> > “It would be very unusual for the Curse to strike in so coincidental a
> fashion,” Andwyn mused quietly.
> >
> > “It happened to me,” Thomas pointed out. “The Hassan coat of arms has
> always featured a rearing horse.”
> >
> > “But not to any of your other vassals,” Malisa pointed out. “Perhaps
> this is a sign to us as well as to him. If he is truly changed to reflect
> his family’s sigil, then he may be meant to stay here and serve you.”
> >
> >
> > I missed the above reference to a rearing horse in my previous search,
> so it would seem that Matt originally used a rearing horse as the symbol
> and only later started describing it as a horse-head.
> >
> > -AlexSurikat
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Ryx <<mailto:sundansyr at yahoo.com>
> sundansyr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Let's try this:
> > The banner of Metamor itself, alone, not withstanding of the ruling
> House is a castle of three towers, below each a gate.  Gray on green
> (castle stone, valley green).  The shape of the banner itself is up to the
> tailor making it.
> >
> > Duke Thomas' banner is a stallion (or just horse) rampant dexter
> (rearing, facing right) with a bend sinister (bar, crossing opposite the
> rampant dexter).  The banner itself is blue (for House Hassan), the horse
> typically red (for his Knighthood), but when placed on the banner of
> Metamor the horse may be blue.  The top of either banner would have
> crenelations or 'embattled line' to indicate the fortress nature of
> Metamor.  The remeberance of the Tree Gates may be included below the horse
> by some symbology on more complex banners.  Usually just three
> free-standing castle-style arched portals at the feet of the horse, or
> slightly behind denoting that the Horse, and House Hassan, holds the Keep.
> >
> > Historically blue meant Truth and Loyalty, and red Martial arms.  Since
> Thomas rules over a peaceful kingdom over a conquesting one blue would be a
> more appropriate color.  (<http://www.oshel.com/symbols.htm>
> http://www.oshel.com/symbols.htm)
> >
> >
> > The adoption of the horse heraldry is new, chosen after the Curse.
> Previous to that it could've been anything (I know little of the Hassan
> house history; griffon or drake would seem likely).
> >
> >
> > From: Alex Green <<mailto:alexsurikat at gmail.com>alexsurikat at gmail.com>
> > To: C. Matthias <<mailto:jagille3 at vt.edu>jagille3 at vt.edu>
> > Cc: christian okane <<mailto:chrisokane at optimum.net>
> chrisokane at optimum.net>; "<mailto:mkguild at lists.integral.org>
> mkguild at lists.integral.org" <<mailto:mkguild at lists.integral.org>
> mkguild at lists.integral.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:34 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Mkguild] possible MK banner/logo
> >
> > After searching through the archives for a while, I was surprised to
> find that there aren't very many descriptions of the banner of Metamor.
> >
> > I found the most complete description at the bottom of the third page of
> Misha's "Plain and Simple"
> >
> > Thomas looked to the top of the ruined tower and noticed the flag
> fluttering in the breeze. It was a black flag with a red rearing horse on
> it. It was the flag of the House Hassan, Duke of Metamor, King of the
> Midland, his own banner.
> >
> >
> > LurkingWolf's "Burning Time" also mention a rearing horse on the flag
> but neglects to mention the colors
> >
> > It appears Matt is the only one who's described it as a horse-head in
> both "Gazing through a Barred Window" and "Healing Wounds in Arabarb", but
> I didn't see any mention of colors from him either.
> >
> > Raven didn't mention what was on the flag, but he had a different idea
> about the colors of Metamor in "A Presence of Thieves"
> >
> > "That isn't the Duke's banner," he said, frowning up at the yellow flags
> flapping in the breeze. "Metamor's colors are blue and white. Why would
> they be flying yellow flags?"
> >
> >
> > Matt confirms that blue is a customary color of the Hassan family in the
> first interlude of "The Last Tale of Yajakali" with several mentions of
> "Hassan Blue" but never actually states whether it's the color of the
> banner or not.  (By the way, I just noticed that the title at the top of
> every page of LOTY has Yajakali spelled wrong as "Yajikali")
> >
> > The wiki unsurprisingly agrees with Misha since he's the one who added
> that information on the "Knights of the Red Stallion" page on the 16th of
> January 2007 (it specifically says that their emblem is the same as the
> Duke's).  He also added the emblem information to the Duke's page earlier
> this month.
> >
> > That is all of the information I could find relating to the
> flag/banner/emblem of the House of Hassan/Metamor Keep, so it seems the it
> is a red/blue rearing-stallion/horse-head on a black/white background.  I
> never noticed how inconsistent its description was before.
> >
> > -AlexSurikat
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:00 AM, C. Matthias <<mailto:jagille3 at vt.edu>
> jagille3 at vt.edu> wrote:
> > At 03:40 AM 2/21/2013, christian okane wrote:
> > That is a nice looking emblem but one small problem. The Horse in the
> emblem has always been red.
> >
> > Chris
> > The Lurking Fox
> >
> > The only reference to red in the emblem that I am aware of comes from
> the knightly order "Order of the Red Stallion".  Please provide other
> official references (Wiki entries do not count).
> >
> >
> > May He bless you and keep you in His grace and love,
> >
> > Charles Matthias
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> >
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