[Mkguild] Cthulhu in Metamor

[JL Badgley]

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:42 AM, Michael Bard <bard.michael at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it's morally right to kill Lutins because "everybody" knows their evil,
> but it is not morally right to kill cultists because they keep their evil
> "secret".  Got it.
>
> Killing evil is only potentially correct dependent on popular perception.

What is the 'proof' of evil?  Their robes?  Can you prove that the
robes themselves make them party to the attempts on Yvarra's life?  If
she had somehow *seen* those people come after her... but she hasn't.

To bring it into a modern context, could I go out and kill anyone who
is a Muslim because *some* people who claim to be Muslim (and I'm not
doubting their beliefs) have said they want to destroy the West?  No,
it would be foolish.

Lutins *are* a different animal.  Essentially, the Keep is at war with
the Lutins, as all the Lutins had rallied under Nasoj.  There's a big
difference there--and they haven't been killed when approaching under
signs of peace (e.g. a white flag).  Although they are still
'monsters' and you are dealing with prejudices against them that
aren't 'right' but definitely exist.

> Or, if a successful public relations campaign made all rat-morphs be evil,
> killing them wouldn't be a crime either...  :)

Essentially you are correct.  Wouldn't make it right, but it would
make it not a crime.  'Crime' and legality are determined by the
authorities--the government--not by what is actually morally right but
by what they believe to be morally right.

> And yes, you could make an argument that Yvarra should have gone "to the
> cops" but due to her personality (thief remember?) she just doesn't trust
> authority, and REFUSES to let anybody do anything for her.  Thus, she is
> personality-wise incapable of asking for help.  That will change as the
> story develops, but not yet.

This is all fine and good.  But you still aren't looking at it from
the right point of view.  Let's put aside Yvarra's reasons for
becoming a mass-murdering vigilante (btw, there is a reason why DC
makes sure Batman--another literary vigilante--goes out of his way
*not* to kill people.  And the cops still want to put him away, most
of the time):  As presented to the court, she has killed 20 people.
Frankly, I don't care if it was 2.  She killed them *in cold blood*.
She was not in a passion, or in a rage.  She was not attempting to
defend herself.  She had other options available to her:

1) She could have gone to the rightful authorities.
2) She could have run away.

When you have both of those options, it is hard to justify why she is
killing people when she doesn't catch them in the act.  If the law
catches her, she will be tried for murder and likely found guilty.
Punishment should be death (some stories seem to say that Duke Hassan
would not give out the death penalty, thus my previous statements--I
agree with Ryx, though, that it should probably be the death penalty)
*unless* Yvarra can somehow show that all of these people were an
immediate threat to her and the people of the Keep.  Thinking on it,
you have to have that second part, because what makes Yvarra's one
life more valuable than twenty others?  Even then, probably life
imprisonment, at least, or very careful guard--perhaps confinement to
the Keep doing something useful the rest of her life (if she can heal
others, that may be a sufficient reason).

There are several *very* simple ways to get around this, imho.  First,
have her try to tell *somebody*.  If she doesn't trust the watch, have
her go to someone else, who could then research and find information
for her.  Also, stop killing people in their beds.  I found that image
VERY disturbing and I think she'll have to answer for it.  For
instance, why couldn't she tie them up and leave them, with their
incriminating cloaks, out in the open for all to see?  You could also
have her kill people who are trying to kill her (i.e. in the act
of...) and then get witnesses to see it or get rid of your restriction
on magic being able to figure it out.  Or just have a really good
detective who could figure out what really happened.

I think the main issue Ryx has, and I have to agree, is that
slaughtering people in their beds is not war, it isn't passion or
self-defense--it is murder.  That's going to be a hard one to get out
of.

-Tatsushu